Turning Consumer Insight Into Ventures | David VanHimbergen, VP of Innovation & DTC at Glanbia

Ben Eachus (00:02.511)
Okay, welcome to the Well Delivered podcast. My name is Ben Eachus. I'm the co-founder and CEO of Flowspace, a fulfillment platform that helps brands scale their fulfillment and operations. Joining us on the call, I have the privilege of introducing David Van Himbergen. David has tremendous amount of experience working at large CPG companies such as Procter & Gamble. He's the co-founder of Tide Spin, which is a corporate venture inside of Procter & Gamble.

also the CEO and president of Real Paper, and is now leading innovation and direct-to-consumer at Glanbia Performance Nutrition. So, David, welcome to the call. Thanks for joining us.

David VanHimbergen (00:41.71)
Thanks, Ben. It's a pleasure to be here.

Ben Eachus (00:44.011)
Awesome. Well, David, I wanted to ask you, how did you find your way into Procter and Gamble? And then specifically, you kind of have this niche of working in these corporate venture parts of the business. So we'd love to hear about your journey and how you got into that.

David VanHimbergen (00:59.7)
Yeah, you know, it's never a direct path and very intentional. I'd say starting off in P &G, coming out of college, you know, I was a management information systems major, had probably more of an interest in business. So P &G really appealed to me in that like, I can go there, you know, get a strong foundation, work with a company that's known for developing leaders. And I knew there was an opportunity to kind of stretch and get new and different experiences every couple of years.

And it was headquartered in Cincinnati, Ohio. grew up in Louisville, Kentucky. So it was nearby. So it was like, OK, great. Regionally, great fit. Hey, I'll go there. I'll get a good foundation, maybe spend five years, and then figure out what's next for me. And I think that's everyone's typical story. And so as I was there, my initial assignment, was supporting a financial reporting application for corporate finance. And I was like, OK, if I'm working at a company that's known for building

world-class brands. That's what I want to learn here. And so I just slowly edged closer and closer to the business and saying like, okay, can I work closer to marketing? And then as I get closer, is that the right fit for me? And do I have advocacy to move over? so, know, over sequential assignment opportunities, eventually made the jump into brand marketing or brand management and marketing and

And just love that experience. And, over time, you know, you just opportunities come up. I'm, you know, I'm working on Crest and Oral-B, like a big powerhouse brand in the North American business. I wanted to go work on the retail accounts to understand what it's like to sell to a retail and what's valuable to them. Cause everyone I had spoken to in the company is like, Hey, these assignments are great. You're in a sales-based culture.

the learning that you build from that, like, is so valuable when you come back and you're running the business, because you know how to position things in terms of what's important to them. So then I go work on the target team. And then after that opportunity, they're like, OK, great. Coming back to Cincinnati, you you've got this hole in your resume where you haven't really led innovation. So go do that work. And I was like, OK, well, that's new and different.

David VanHimbergen (03:17.558)
I considered myself to be more of like on the current business, running things, selling cases, and, know, making sure we can deliver the current year. So there was a little bit of an attitude initially of like, well, all right, I'll go in there. It'll be a cup of coffee and maybe do two years and get back out into the core business. But, in that opportunity, actually realized like we were, I was in a division that was front end innovation. So FEI, so more upstream and

our responsibility was really think about, you know, what's that next big platform of innovation to grab the business. But because we were so upstream, we also had, I think, less direct immediate accountability. And so they're like, Hey, let's operate more entrepreneurially. Let's think about different business models. And they set up basically an approach that would say, if you have a compelling idea that you can work out with your team, you could basically bring it to senior leadership and pitch it. And

almost act as the founder. And so, you know, I just happened to walk into that, got really excited about this idea, which eventually became Tidespin, went to pitch it to a president. He's like, great, go do this. I ended up running that business for two years. We acquired a couple of businesses. It was very much building from the ground up. And I just ended up then falling in love with that aspect of like running an early stage business and really familiarizing yourself with.

what it means to operate something at such an early stage and getting into all aspects of the business. And so like that just kind of kicked off a career of like, want to stay in this early stage world. And, know, eventually led to where I am.

Ben Eachus (04:57.199)
That's very cool. And tell me more about Tide Spin. What was it? Because this is, it seems like a bit of a departure from what Procter & Gamble is known for, right? It was like laundromats and laundry services as well, but I would love to learn more about it.

David VanHimbergen (05:11.918)
Yeah. mean, awesome experience, like, you know, defines my career, just maybe changed the trajectory as we kind of just spoke to. But so in our group, we kind of identified like four different innovation spaces that we wanted to consider, you know, some of them digitally powered, some of them, you know, more environmental sustainability angle, like big, macro trends. And within that, we had

We just kind of talked about, we were on actually a discovery research kind of scouting adventure here in Chicago. And this was like 2014, 15. So we're out looking for inspiration, you know, going to the museum of science and industry in Chicago, going to these like local garage stores. And we were taking Ubers everywhere. And I guess it was, maybe sadly at that time, but

Now it's been 12 years ago. Like it was my first experience really getting in an Uber and just the, and for it taking around teams of like five to six people and getting in them from point to point and being very reliable and like a nice service that could accommodate. I'm like, wow, this is so amazing. Like so easy. Like otherwise we would have to like have a car service rented for the day, you know, would have been just much more difficult. And so then we just started like the noodle started going like, what would the Uber for laundry look like?

What does that mean? And so we just jumped in and started digging on like, okay, how do you take this asset light business model, translate that back into the chore of laundry elevated by some aspect of trust and that it's coming from a big major brand that you know and can trust. And you know, like they're not going to allow it to screw up. And

achieve like one of the biggest pain points in the category of like, people hate doing laundry or out there. And like a lot of our incremental innovation, trying to solve like, okay, how can we remove this type of stain a little bit better? Like, you know, a protein based stain versus a grease stain and like the different things. I'm like, we're, we've solved 98 % of the challenges in laundry and we're ignoring the biggest pain point of like, hate doing it. So if you get to like,

Ben Eachus (07:13.145)
Yup.

Ben Eachus (07:34.319)
Yeah, sure.

David VanHimbergen (07:36.654)
you know, a densely populated urban market where you've got younger people focused on building their careers. They have more money than time. They may not even have access to a washing machine in their apartment unit. So it becomes even more of a chore. Like, what if you could do that for them? And is there a business model there? And so that was kind of the inception of it all. And kind of was enough to get our senior leaders excited and saying, okay,

Go see if you can figure it out. gonna give you a little bit of money and like a short window, come back with some proof points and we'll continue. If not, like, you know, closing up shop.

Ben Eachus (08:13.167)
That is awesome. Interestingly, Uber was an inspiration to me starting this company. I had a slightly different experience where when Uber came out, was just the app was just so easy to use. Then I would go into work and be using these legacy supply chain systems. Just to generate a report, would take me 30 minutes just to figure out how to do it. The whole core to why we started was could we make

some of the supply chain and fulfillment software as easy to use as like a consumer app that you'd use in your personal life. So I think that company was just so inspirational to a lot of people. So that's super cool. you're running Tidespin, which is essentially a startup in like a massive, massive company. And then it sounds like you kind of went more early stage along your career. So

David VanHimbergen (08:53.838)
Yeah.

Ben Eachus (09:11.253)
What are some of the things that you carried with you from that brand management experience at Proctor and applying it to these early stage ideas? Like, you know, it's a different animal that you're, you know, you're working on, but how did you do that?

David VanHimbergen (09:24.822)
Yeah, I think first and foremost, what I learned at P &G, in which they talk about a lot, is just the obsession with the consumer. The consumer is boss mantra, keeping them at front and center. Everything that you do, every decision you make, you should put through that lens. You're there to serve their needs. And when you fall off track of that, the business model starts to unravel.

And so, you know, as, you know, through the different iterations of my career, even now where I am today at Glanbia it's like maintaining that mindset of if you can't serve the consumer and address one of their needs, you're not going to find a compelling business model or proposition that can ultimately generate, you know, profit and create value for companies and sustain a business and support a team. So, you know, I think that's first and foremost.

Um, I think, you know, the other thing is maybe unique to my experience is I was always interested in getting a variety, like an exposure to a variety of things. So where I started as an analyst and maybe got very deep into, um, you know, marketing analytics and, and, Nielsen and retail data and how that worked, like having that visibility and the analytical mindset to like,

read the data to understand what's going on in the market. How does that reflect behavior? What's starting to emerge? And then using that to shape your strategy. I think that's always been a pretty important skill that I've carried with me. like having that strategic mindset, being very intentional about and choiceful about what you're going to, what you're deciding to do, how you will do it better than anyone else. But then

being very rooted in the data to help inform and justify that reason. I'd say that's like another big piece that I cared for.

Ben Eachus (11:27.374)
That's super cool. And at an early stage company specifically, know, um, you know, at proctor, you have all these resources and, maybe, um, like focus groups and things like that. How do you do that at a smaller company where you don't necessarily have. Perfect date, not no data is perfect, but you don't have all of those resources. How are you kind of like keeping data in mind, but also trusting your instinct. So

David VanHimbergen (11:53.526)
Yeah. I think that's the challenge. I, you know, I think even as you talk to folks that have left P and G or even people that have hired people after they leave P and G, they're like, Hey, that's a watch out. Because when you're in a large company like Procter and Gamble, that, you know, it just has access to a lot of resources, great talent. You're able to fall back on that.

Ben Eachus (12:20.707)
Yup.

David VanHimbergen (12:21.826)
But when you're in a small company, you might not have Nielsen data. You certainly probably don't have someone that's leading consumer research or like an agency that's pulling together insights for you. So you've got to do it on your own. You've got to do it in a very constrained budget. And you're justifying like a limited pool, but you're like, that pool isn't just to cover like marketing research. That pool of money is also maybe going to pay.

someone's salary or bonus or getting product, you know, imported into the country so that you can fulfill the next order and keep inventory at the market. So it's like, it's very scarce and competitive. So you have to just ultimately, like you had said, trust your gut in some ways, use some intuition, or just, I think you get by with understanding what truly is maybe a meaningful sample size. Like it may not be statistically relevant.

Ben Eachus (12:56.567)
Yo.

David VanHimbergen (13:18.51)
But if you talk to three to four people that you know match the mindset and the profile of the consumer you're targeting, you get a similar reaction. Like you're pretty certain like, all right, we've got something there. That's enough to go on. I don't need to, you know, run a survey or a study with 200 people to say like with absolute certainty. And the risk is also different. Like you're in an earlier stage, you're building, it's iterative. You're like, I'm not trying to get this thing into

Ben Eachus (13:38.755)
Sure.

David VanHimbergen (13:48.782)
20,000 retail doors on the same day. I'm trying to serve this next 50 customers in a better way to justify that like there's a reason for me to keep advancing.

Ben Eachus (14:01.624)
totally. And that definitely resonates with even our company, right? It's like you're starting and you really appreciate that there's no safety net per se. There's no controls, right? Or, you know, maybe it passed experience in a bigger company. There's always a finance team or a marketing team. And, you know, I think you're experiencing all of it at once. You're managing working capital, you're managing, you know, the production and actually getting on the shelf. So it's,

David VanHimbergen (14:29.262)
Yeah.

Ben Eachus (14:30.4)
Yeah, it's certainly a different and it yeah, go ahead.

David VanHimbergen (14:33.144)
I think, I think curious to know your experience too throughout your career, but I think it, it's a great skill to develop because even when you get back into a company that there may be more of an abundance of resources, like now I'm at Glanbia Performance Nutrition, it's certainly larger than real paper, which I was running. So you have access to resources and specialized pool like talent.

Like we've got an INA team here, but like it also can force you back. Like, do I need that? Can I operate with greater constraints? Would that unlock more creativity if I did such? And it kind of challenges you a little bit. So I don't know. I'm even curious throughout your journey, like how you've appreciated those different challenges and maybe how it's allowed you to be more holistic in your thinking.

Ben Eachus (15:25.87)
Yeah, know, I prior prior to working at the honest company and then starting flow space, I worked at a larger company, a couple of thousand people, and it was an older company and every process was very dialed in. So you were looking for one, 2 % improvements, right? And that was massive because the scale was so big. And at a business school professor and he said, look, if you, if you want to start a company, the most common starting place for that is

working at a company with a hundred or fewer people. And at the time that didn't make sense to me. was like, okay, then why is this the magic number? And then when I joined the honest company, I think the main difference is you get to experience a little bit of everything. So while your role is one thing on paper, you might have a title that you had at your previous life. Your responsibilities are very broad and you're exposed to systems not working.

together, right? No systems. You're thrown into a spot where you really have no negotiating power because you can't really rely on the brand name that you have. And everything becomes a negotiation or, and sales. Right. And I think it also gives you the confidence, I think, when you're working at a smaller place and you see these companies that are

David VanHimbergen (16:22.328)
Thank you.

Ben Eachus (16:50.466)
very like on the outside looked very buttoned up and very successful, but you see how they actually run and you're like, okay, not everything is perfect. You know, maybe I'll give this a try because everything is ultimately held together with duct tape, right? In the beginning. so I think it mirrors your experience too, is seeing that where you know what the best looks like from, you know, Procter and some of these other companies, but you also know it's a journey to get there. Like I'm sure Procter,

David VanHimbergen (17:03.022)
Yes.

David VanHimbergen (17:17.889)
Yeah.

Ben Eachus (17:19.054)
today looks a lot different than it did when it started, or even 50 years ago.

David VanHimbergen (17:23.15)
Yeah. Yeah. And even that observation of like, your perception of the best is never perfect. Every organization has its challenges and issues and gaps. And so you're just like, yeah, we're trying to resolve the most, the most immediate urgent gap, but like we can't solve it all in an early company, but Hey, we're going to tackle this issue now. So we've got to flex and be able to move into that, take it on and then be able to flex to a different opportunity the next day.

Ben Eachus (17:47.127)
Yup.

Ben Eachus (17:51.392)
And the speed at which these iterations or decisions are making, I think that's really exciting. So I don't know. It's difficult to give career advice, but I would say like, if you can have that big company experience and the small company experience, I think that's ultimately the best because you kind of know what you're building towards. but I'm curious, so you're now at Glanbia and leading corporate innovation and direct to consumer business. Where do you see

David VanHimbergen (18:09.966)
Yeah.

Ben Eachus (18:21.39)
innovation projects stall or not work? Like any kind of words of wisdom that you can impart on innovation by definition is very creative process, but how do you put some structure around that and make sure you're

David VanHimbergen (18:32.802)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's it's a creative process, but it also requires some discipline and I think accountability that falls back into there. So, you know, I think you'll hear people talk about innovation theater if they're just, you know, talking about ideas, but they may be, you know, wild. Are they practical? Are they really rooted in a consumer need? Are they helping to build?

brand equity and drive it on a trajectory of where they want to go. Like making sure all of those things connect is what would make a innovation project. Cause it's, it's building, it's compounding on something. You you can launch something and maybe it, you know, achieve some level of success. Say, we've got a $20 million idea out there, but maybe you can't sustain it. Or maybe it's a flash in the pan and it's not really an enduring insight. Like,

Ben Eachus (19:26.68)
Mm-hmm.

David VanHimbergen (19:32.088)
those things ultimately like, okay, that's not a success. you know, I think the going back to your question of just kind of what the challenges are with the hangup is, you know, the, the pace of which things are moving today now is faster than ever. know, everyone says it's only getting faster and accelerating with technology and everything else, but it's also just the ability for a new brand or product to launch.

So, you know, 20 years ago when I was working at P &G, there were higher barriers to entry. Like for you to really be successful and, you know, even Amazon was growing at that time and existing, but it's far different than it is today. Like you had to have, you know, some scaled manufacturing. There wasn't really the network of comans that there is today or like the willingness to work with you and, and to really like innovate and create new products well.

Distribution was largely through bricks and mortar, which was controlled and gated by large retailers that had buyers that were heavily influenced by the big players. So hard to do. Advertising, like, okay, how do you really get scaled advertising buys through radio and TV or print magazines? Like most people were working through media buying agencies. So like there wasn't the social media, et cetera. So like all of those things that have transformed.

The industry now is like, I can spin up a Shopify site. I can find a command to produce a product or I can find a manufacturer overseas and import it now through like logistics partners that are willing to work with this ecosystem. I can advertise and reach consumers to tell them about it through social media or other just, you know, simple to like, I guess, entrepreneurial friendly platforms.

And I can find a way to deliver goods to consumers. like all of those things have enabled more companies to enter, let alone like venture capital world that's funding ideas and there is excitement for it. So like there's more competition now than ever. It's moving at a faster pace. So the challenge when you're in a big company is like, okay, what am I chasing or following versus what am I sticking to because I have confidence and conviction in what.

Ben Eachus (21:31.426)
Yup.

David VanHimbergen (21:57.518)
I've established as my priorities. And I think the trap can often be like you hear noise, you see some things and you end up chasing that, but then you're losing sight of like, but what is my core strategy? What, who is the consumer? I'm trying to serve with my brand. What are their needs and how do I continue to compound serve more of their needs more holistically in a better way than anyone else can. And I think that's where sometimes it falls apart. If you get a little distracted by some of the noise or the things that are going

And that's where I think it's this balance of creativity to identify unique ways to solve needs, but the discipline to stay focused on like, this is my strategy. I've got to play this out and see it.

Ben Eachus (22:39.694)
That's so interesting because it sounds like what you're describing is like the actual execution of starting this business has gotten a lot easier. Now it's not easy by any stretch of imagination, you in the past you have finding essentially co-manufacturer, logistics services, marketing services, marketing avenues, like all of that has gotten easier, but it sounds like the thing that's still as difficult is identifying the pain point that you're going to go solve.

and making sure that your product actually matches that pain point. I felt that way a bit with a lot of the AI products that are coming out now. It's like actually doing the work has gotten easier, but finding that problem to solve is still the hard part, right? Like, are we solving the right problem? I think is what you're saying.

David VanHimbergen (23:12.46)
Yeah. Yeah.

David VanHimbergen (23:25.966)
Yeah.

Yeah. And that's trapping too often is like falling in love with the technology. If it doesn't address the consumer problem, there's not anything there. And so you've got to make sure that you're addressing that otherwise. And I think then that can end up appearing to be innovation theater. Like, oh wait, we're playing with all these fancy tools. We're using this technology to kind of mimic consumer research and we're shortening

the period from like concept to prototype by like 2X, like, okay, is it then eventually leading to compelling business results? Like, are you building revenue? Is that generating profit? How's that helping to grow the brand equity? Like sometimes you can lose sight of that. And that's where I think the sloppiness can end.

Ben Eachus (24:24.77)
No, that makes total sense. It's like, you're not just sitting in a room pontificating. You actually need to make sure you're moving forward and actually driving business value. So I know as we wrap up, David, a couple of the questions I had around, or were around, what's exciting to you today? You talked about the pace of innovation, the pace of actually execution is increasing a lot, but what changes are you seeing today or any?

pieces of technology that you're excited about or any white space in the CPG market that you're really focused on right now.

David VanHimbergen (25:00.128)
Yeah. Yeah. I think what excites me right now, I number one, like the categories that Glanbia plays in are super hot. Like protein or one of the largest sports nutrition brand companies, we've got the largest performance nutrition brand and Optum Nutrition. It's a category with just a lot of tailwinds, know, high single digit, if not double digit growth through a lot of the different category segments. And if I go back to

you know, P and G, they're working on laundry or oral care. Like you were saying, like you're in a dog fight to try to eke out one to 2 % points of growth. Like here there's excitement. There's already momentum behind you. so that becomes really compelling and interesting. you know, I think the other thing is that like maybe I'm a sucker for competition, but because it's easier more than ever to enter into this space, like there's a lot of new,

and interesting propositions that are coming into the marketplace and helping to shift consumers' mindsets too, to be more holistically centered on like what health and well-being looks like. So it gives us maybe a broader aperture to say, yeah, we've largely been focused on sports or performance nutrition, but we have an opportunity to extend these brands even to a broader space where we become

a force for healthy living and, sorry, you got something in there. You know, more of a force for good and extended to new benefit spaces. And then I think the other thing is just the technology piece that is enabling faster discovery of new technologies or capabilities or just understanding like the microbiome and the gut and what interactions and all the different microbes that are at play there that can help.

propel and optimize all of the energy systems and performance systems within your body. Like the more that you can discover those and figure out unique new ways to address those opportunity areas and allow people to live a healthier, better life, to get more out of life. Like that's a pretty high purpose to serve there. And so for me, like that, that just gets really exciting to kind of be a part of that venture.

Ben Eachus (27:29.826)
That's such a great insight. I guess to your point about it being easier to start brands, you foresee, and there has just been a flood of new products on the market. Do you foresee that just continuing that new brands, both from legacy or incumbents and then also upstarts are just gonna continue multiplying because it's, guess, cheaper to actually get these off the ground.

David VanHimbergen (27:55.918)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Easier to build a consumer base, easier to establish traction. like, yeah, I'd say without a doubt, like even if I go back to P and G again, like the categories in which their brands are playing, you know, they had a, most of them, they had a pretty dominant position. Like I'm thinking Tide and Crest, like a lot of times those brands are 30, 40 share of the category, which is a huge, like, you know, and

Ben Eachus (28:21.016)
Sure.

David VanHimbergen (28:25.442)
Sometimes between that first and second place is like 15 or 20 share points. Like, I don't think that's going to be the case going forward. think you're going to see more fragmentation into consumer goods because the barriers of entry are lower and because the way you influence and acquire customers and create meaningful relationships is so,

overuse this term democratized, but it's like it's accessible for more people. And so I think it's harder for some, for one player to really have one dominant position in a category. Like if you look at ours and within, you know, proteins, health and nutrition, or like the ready to mix sector, like there are, you know, we're the leaders, but there's a lot of players in there that are constantly chasing us because it's such a hot space. And so it just forces us that we've got to stay on top of our game.

We have to probably accelerate the rate of our innovation and the pace at which we're bringing things to market, knowing that some things may not hit, thinking about, it may not be that model as it was historically where I'm going to bring a proposition. I'm going to land it in every one of my retailers on day one because I need to be a little bit more iterative and accept some risk and learn on the most important things as I go through that learning journey.

over time in three to five years, I'll end up on a better trajectory and like with a more meaningful bit of value I've been able to create for the brands and company, but it may not be the zero to a hundred. It may be more incremental in its steps to get there.

Ben Eachus (30:06.414)
that, you know, that, kind of is a parallel to what we're seeing in the market as well, where, you know, the, brands that we serve very much fit into that category that 10 years ago, they most didn't exist, but they've quickly amassed massive customer bases with very small teams too. which speaks to some of the tools that you had. And it also, I think it's the downstream impact of all of this growth for the CPG brands is that the supply chain and

fulfillment infrastructure needs to change fundamentally too. I think there's, you know, obviously e-commerce that's, that's widely known, but there's many different channels on e-commerce. can be selling on your website, sell on, Amazon or Walmart. And now increasingly many of the brands that have reached that critical mass are shifting their business into retail. And it's, it's no longer good enough to be kind of just good at one thing and.

David VanHimbergen (30:39.117)
Yeah.

Ben Eachus (31:04.364)
Yeah, there's, there's downstream impacts on companies like ours that we need a product. We need a service that actually enables these brands to stay relatively small head count wise, but they're acting like bigger companies, like in terms of the distribution that they're getting. So it's, it's an exciting time.

David VanHimbergen (31:22.19)
Yeah. Well, that's what I mean. Yeah. mean, a shameless plug for you and your team at FlowSpace when I was at Real though. But that's what I always appreciated is we had a extremely small team, know, eight full-time employees running a relatively sized, large sized business. One of the fastest growing brands in Target, certainly the largest, sustainable selling direct to consumer. We didn't have the capability to really understand that, but

for us being able to plug into your network, create fulfillment centers throughout the country so that we could make sure any e-commerce order we could fulfill within two days because that level of service is critical now that Amazon had established that. And by the way, now they're trying to establish next day's service. the threshold is just rising and rising from that. like...

Ben Eachus (32:09.933)
Sure.

David VanHimbergen (32:17.08)
Companies like yours help enable like an ecosystem that drives innovation and keeps things moving forward and allows people to kind of build up and play as a small player operate as a omni-channel powerhouse still.

Ben Eachus (32:30.83)
Well, thank you for saying that. I promise the listeners I did not pay David to say that, but thank you. think, David, I don't think we can end on a higher note than that. So I think we should adjourn, but it was, thank you for your time. It was great speaking to you and I really appreciate you sharing your insights here. All right, see you David.

David VanHimbergen (32:34.152)
He just walked in.

David VanHimbergen (32:47.522)
Yeah, it's good catching up, Ben. Thanks.

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